Xbox One Hotchips revisited and XBox One Speculative discussion
- Thread starter puresoul002
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TeGu
Black lizard baritone-jazz in the soul bone
Where is the speculation... this is all but confirmed.
It is interesting how the paid sdf troll bullies show up in every thread where someone points out the the x1 is more capable than the ps4, with the singular exception of the GPU...
I'm there guys. Tell me where to sign up and I will be happy to be a sdf bully troll with you guys.
It is interesting how the paid sdf troll bullies show up in every thread where someone points out the the x1 is more capable than the ps4, with the singular exception of the GPU...
I'm there guys. Tell me where to sign up and I will be happy to be a sdf bully troll with you guys.
Okay, now it feels like TeamXbox, it's time for a spot the difference competition.
This is the original slide presented at Hotchips by Microsoft's Xbox silicon team.
It was presented by John Sell, Partner Hardware Architect at Microsoft and Chief architect for the Xbox One SoC. His previously held positions include Senior Fellow at AMD, Chief Technical Officer at The 3DO Company and a distinguished Engineer at Apple.
This one was made by Puresoul.
Now the key mistake, is removing the compute and graphics command processors from the graphics core (GPU) and stating they are separate.
The big problem with this is, apart from the fact that it completely contradicts the Chief Architect of the SoC's schematic and that is pretty daft in itself, is that the graphics and compute command processors are a standard integrated part of a modern AMD GPU and not separate co-processors from the GPU.
The whitepaper linked below proves this.
www.amd.com%2Fuk%2FDocuments%2FGCN_Architecture_whitepaper.pdf&ei=EUw3Ur-pLbHG7AbLqIGgCw&usg=AFQjCNEmmowyGKqrbePOoEwGJ1sDeK4aTA&sig2=T17oatlREKuCuLDl_jkqgQ&bvm=bv.52164340,d.ZGU
The graphics core box is expanded in this slide which details the single GPU...
So in short, puresoul, you are quite incorrect.
Again.
He added the graphics and compute units simply to have it in the list of 15 processors. I don't think he implied anything beyond that, but wanted to show how those are part of what he believes to be considered the 15.
I see no foul in that particular adjustment.
It is just easier to agree with them ps3/4 is way more powerful and enjoy the 360/xb1 titles that are as good or surpass anything they have. something like the gears of war titles this past gen and the launch exclusives for xb1.
Pat them on the head, tell them it's ok... then watch as they run off and make two or three more "assurance" threads that helps them reaffirm their beliefs.
Personally, whether one is more powerful or not, doesn't matter. History has shown this is not a gauge of success, nor is it indicative of game "quality"
If your game is a turd, making it shine with pretty effects and textures, just makes it a shiny turd.
Exactly, very few generations were "won" by the most powerful console. Winning back then and today are 2 different things. As long as MS continues to make a killing they'll let Sony sell more consoles. What are the attachment rates? How much DLC does each bring in...? What is the price up front for MS & Sony?
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I agree to some extent that pure soul gets a little carried away. On the misterx website they keep adding tflop numbers together but it can't work like that.
primatives section:
Everything I can deduce is that Microsoft is bringing back parts of a fixed function graphics pipeline. Using shader cores is flexible but hardly efficient, especially for repetitive operations on large chunks of data eg geometry. Do this will be offloaded to a fixed function processor.
Tflops section:
What this means is the shader cores can focus on what they do, shader ops and gpu calc. The big question is by offloading all that geometry, how much more efficient is the gpgpu?
Gpixels section:
Afaik the vgleaks docs say that this can be done in esram.
primatives section:
Everything I can deduce is that Microsoft is bringing back parts of a fixed function graphics pipeline. Using shader cores is flexible but hardly efficient, especially for repetitive operations on large chunks of data eg geometry. Do this will be offloaded to a fixed function processor.
Tflops section:
What this means is the shader cores can focus on what they do, shader ops and gpu calc. The big question is by offloading all that geometry, how much more efficient is the gpgpu?
Gpixels section:
Afaik the vgleaks docs say that this can be done in esram.
People not following, that i put the DX11.1 into context that why i made the new diagram
even i keep the colour still the same, ask yourself why the colour of DX 11.1+ is Blue & Magenta because it is part oh Host subsystem
it is standard way in enginerring to colour based on same Block, i will do the same
Lets take a look once more :
the 4 Coprocessor in DX11.1 is labeled :
as Gfx CP + Compute CP, it is a coprocessor
Then look at the term on SOC summary
How can a GPU which already GPGPU improve GPGPU? use logic
if there is only one Main GPU the correct term will
be
DX11.1+ with GPGPU capability
instead they are using
DX11.1+ offload CPU and improve GPGPU
unless it is to Improve GPGPU from Main GfxCore
as GPGPU generally is GPU domain, not CPU domain ( Improve GPGPU means Improve another Gfx Core)
even i keep the colour still the same, ask yourself why the colour of DX 11.1+ is Blue & Magenta because it is part oh Host subsystem
it is standard way in enginerring to colour based on same Block, i will do the same
Lets take a look once more :
the 4 Coprocessor in DX11.1 is labeled :
as Gfx CP + Compute CP, it is a coprocessor
Then look at the term on SOC summary
How can a GPU which already GPGPU improve GPGPU? use logic
if there is only one Main GPU the correct term will
be
DX11.1+ with GPGPU capability
instead they are using
DX11.1+ offload CPU and improve GPGPU
unless it is to Improve GPGPU from Main GfxCore
as GPGPU generally is GPU domain, not CPU domain ( Improve GPGPU means Improve another Gfx Core)
another one, why MS hide the other 4 SPP ? because it is not.
if infact they already clearly show it is DX 11.1 is for Ofloading, what it means it's means it is not main Gfx core, someone are refuse to accept that it is same as 4CU on PS4, but instead 4 CU for improve GPGPU. MS use 12 CU to improve GPGPU, as they have Main Gfx Core + 8 other DPU, as part of guest subsystem (Green Coloured)
if infact they already clearly show it is DX 11.1 is for Ofloading, what it means it's means it is not main Gfx core, someone are refuse to accept that it is same as 4CU on PS4, but instead 4 CU for improve GPGPU. MS use 12 CU to improve GPGPU, as they have Main Gfx Core + 8 other DPU, as part of guest subsystem (Green Coloured)
TeGu
Black lizard baritone-jazz in the soul bone
Puresoul=techno speak that makes your brain itch then explode then drip out of your smoking ear holes
Zom=creepy clown holding balloons
Classic!
Latest Crytek Article, just recently posted on Crytek BLOG
From the project manager It self
http://www.crytek.com/blog/revelations-of-ryse-yannick-boucher
"“For starters, thanks to our new version of the CRYENGINE"
"pushing the Xbox One’s graphics capabilities beyond anything that’s ever been seen, right out of the gate"
"Our character models are incredibly detailed"
"Our main character, Marius Titus, is possibly the most detailed main protagonist in any game."
"with some of the most advanced facial animations ever seen in video games. Our environments are gorgeous."
Some Comparison ALL from Tech Paper seen by million of user WW
(At least they wont lie dont they ?)
It is from recent Siggrapgh 2013 event
Ryse , Up to 150K for Main Character and NPC, Culled By priority
KZSF, Up to 40K
Witcher 3, up to 40K for PC version and nextgen
So Supposed to be weak System Have 4 times more Poly compare to PS4 KZSF and evenWitcher3 ?
Have caustics a high end features that rarely enabled on Crysis 3 , that can impacted the framerate
Have Environment like grass affected by Main Chacaracter or NPC, when on KZSF they just like passing through
Have Per object shadow, even KZSF are not that advanced
Have Voxel tracing etc .....
From the project manager It self
http://www.crytek.com/blog/revelations-of-ryse-yannick-boucher
"“For starters, thanks to our new version of the CRYENGINE"
"pushing the Xbox One’s graphics capabilities beyond anything that’s ever been seen, right out of the gate"
"Our character models are incredibly detailed"
"Our main character, Marius Titus, is possibly the most detailed main protagonist in any game."
"with some of the most advanced facial animations ever seen in video games. Our environments are gorgeous."
Some Comparison ALL from Tech Paper seen by million of user WW
(At least they wont lie dont they ?)
It is from recent Siggrapgh 2013 event
Ryse , Up to 150K for Main Character and NPC, Culled By priority
KZSF, Up to 40K
Witcher 3, up to 40K for PC version and nextgen
So Supposed to be weak System Have 4 times more Poly compare to PS4 KZSF and evenWitcher3 ?
Have caustics a high end features that rarely enabled on Crysis 3 , that can impacted the framerate
Have Environment like grass affected by Main Chacaracter or NPC, when on KZSF they just like passing through
Have Per object shadow, even KZSF are not that advanced
Have Voxel tracing etc .....
so what you are saying is that resolution was sacrificed for visuals.
And voxel tracing lmao....are you taking people's theories and making them your own facts now? http://www.ign.com/boards/threads/so-could-the-x1s-secret-sauce-be-voxel-cone-ray-tracing.453362563/
And voxel tracing lmao....are you taking people's theories and making them your own facts now? http://www.ign.com/boards/threads/so-could-the-x1s-secret-sauce-be-voxel-cone-ray-tracing.453362563/
150k model is fanatisic, & would be a nice for next gen if this is the trend. WIth a high normal map, you do not really need higher polygon count on characters, this is coming from someone who know a bit about character modeling. 40k, is a bit average, but can be compensate with higher res (or higher quality 32 bit vs 16 bit for instance) normal maps. Of course it also depends how many overall people & objects you need to put on screen.
For comparision, I think Gears have about 10-15k per main character.
Damn. make me want to buy Ryse just to see the new crytek engine with its 700 joints & 150K models amoung other techs at work.
For comparision, I think Gears have about 10-15k per main character.
Damn. make me want to buy Ryse just to see the new crytek engine with its 700 joints & 150K models amoung other techs at work.
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TeGu
Black lizard baritone-jazz in the soul bone
sub-30fps @ 900p.
Hell, if they drop it to 1fps they could probably do a million poly's per character.
:trollface:
Harrison also said there would be something big coming at EE on the 26th, I think that is what MN is referring to
Oh dear lord, what are you people smoking? Someone draws their own magical technical diagrams in such a way to prove their fairy dust point, then tries to tell us what the "standard colors" are for engineering diagrams (hint: there are no standard colors for engineering diagrams to convey what parts are contained in chips). And when people point out how ridiculous that is, they're "SDF bullies"? Please, just stop!!
The XB1 will be fine. I think there's more to learn about the system, but it's going to be things like efficiencies in bandwidth, ways in which the various components interact, etc. And it will more than hold its own with the PS4. Let's just accept that it is capable of great visuals and more great stuff to come. We don't need to imagine secret hardware, secret September revelations, or any other quasi-cult stuff. It's a waste of time. The "announcements" coming in September could be about games, deals with the NFL, or anything else. The PAX "secrets" turned out to be what games are playable on the PAX floor, for gods sake!
Puresoul, you doctored the diagram to break out part of the GPU and treat it like it was a separate component. The original documents show the exact opposite. Your supposition, that those parts that were clearly listed as PART of the GPU are not actually in the GPU, is incorrect, and it's the basis of all of your wild conjecture. Continuing to talk about things that are impossible is not "keeping an open mind", it is not "being open to interesting theories", it's making stuff up that you really wish to be true and then trying to convince yourself and everyone around you that it is, despite all evidence to the contrary. This is unhealthy. You're one step away from cutting your own genitals off and poisoning yourself in your black jumpsuit and white Pro-Keds, like the Heaven's Gate comet worshippers from the late 90s.
The XB1 will be fine. I think there's more to learn about the system, but it's going to be things like efficiencies in bandwidth, ways in which the various components interact, etc. And it will more than hold its own with the PS4. Let's just accept that it is capable of great visuals and more great stuff to come. We don't need to imagine secret hardware, secret September revelations, or any other quasi-cult stuff. It's a waste of time. The "announcements" coming in September could be about games, deals with the NFL, or anything else. The PAX "secrets" turned out to be what games are playable on the PAX floor, for gods sake!
Puresoul, you doctored the diagram to break out part of the GPU and treat it like it was a separate component. The original documents show the exact opposite. Your supposition, that those parts that were clearly listed as PART of the GPU are not actually in the GPU, is incorrect, and it's the basis of all of your wild conjecture. Continuing to talk about things that are impossible is not "keeping an open mind", it is not "being open to interesting theories", it's making stuff up that you really wish to be true and then trying to convince yourself and everyone around you that it is, despite all evidence to the contrary. This is unhealthy. You're one step away from cutting your own genitals off and poisoning yourself in your black jumpsuit and white Pro-Keds, like the Heaven's Gate comet worshippers from the late 90s.