Xbox One Hotchips revisited and XBox One Speculative discussion
- Thread starter puresoul002
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215 vs 240W what is the differences
240 w is my speculative guess
215 is reality from 85% efficiency it is good
still the same with my estimated wattage
240 w is my speculative guess
215 is reality from 85% efficiency it is good
still the same with my estimated wattage
infact PS4 wattage is less than 120W
PS4 : 120v AC x 2.1A = 240W AC = 120W DC, 100W TDP
Remember AC Wattage is almost 2 times of DC , as it is Alternating remember (a Sinewave)
Now this is a Beta Devkit PSU left, Near Final PSU right of X1
50oW-560W AC, 253 W DC, 215W TDP
So Using same logic as Neogaf
PS4 Mainboard + Camera + USB + GDDR5 + Blueray + Wifi chipset + SB = Consume 50-60W
left the PS4 APU = 40W-50W
PS4 : 120v AC x 2.1A = 240W AC = 120W DC, 100W TDP
Remember AC Wattage is almost 2 times of DC , as it is Alternating remember (a Sinewave)
Now this is a Beta Devkit PSU left, Near Final PSU right of X1
50oW-560W AC, 253 W DC, 215W TDP
So Using same logic as Neogaf
PS4 Mainboard + Camera + USB + GDDR5 + Blueray + Wifi chipset + SB = Consume 50-60W
left the PS4 APU = 40W-50W
Older X360 with worse efficiency, just to make more appropriate doing a comparison
and put PS4 FCC image into context
470 W AC
175 W DC
and put PS4 FCC image into context
470 W AC
175 W DC
Wait, what? Someone gives actual information, and you have some sort of "85% efficiency" justification for how your (incorrect) number is still correct? Where did that number (85%) come from? Is there something about power supplies you know? Or is 215 just 85% of 240, so you made up some sort of "85% efficiency is standard" thing to justify the fact that you are quantifiably wrong in your assumptions that you claim as facts?
Seriously, man, you need some help. I hate to be mean, but your connection to reality is getting more and more tenuous the more you post. If you were wrong, it's OK; I don't feel the need to gloat. Our reaction isn't about that. It's about your insistence on continuing to post nonsense as if it were fact or "open discussion" or intelligent guesswork, non-stop, despite the actual facts that continue to be released.
Man, I weep for the future.
With 215w the most you could possibly hope for is that Microsoft has power gated some additional CUs that they intend to turn on by upscaling the system later. But even THAT would be like an impossible miracle hail mary pass at the end of the game.
Pure for your sake I wish it all was true. The insane amount of effort you've put into this is admirable (in a Bizarro world kind of way of course), but the sooner you let this stuff go, the sooner you'll actually be able to appreciate the REAL architecture that's in this system.
You know what speculative is ?
I make the assumption based on Coiltronics 1007-R23 part
and it is very close
i think seriously u need help
my wattage assumpiton is so close with 215W
i am not even said my 240 is correct , dont twsited the info wow wow!!!
when all Beyond and S|A and neaogaf all orchestrating a 100W machine remember
instead they make assumption by what presented in Wired teardown (clear 5 premium quality Coil + 2 Choke)
they make assumption on the hates towards everything MS info
the 85% efficiency is the standadr way to assume after we know
in my effort we dont know all of the data remember !!!
what i have is 5 coiltronics + 2 choke and indeed very close .....
The 100W is the wattage of the SoC. The total wattage of the system will of course be more. You can name drop Coiltronics part numbers all you want, it doesn't prove any point. It's like me referencing genus and species names in Latin when trying to prove that chimpanzees founded the Roman Empire. Sure, it sounds impressive, but adds nothing to any actual argument.
No one is orchestrating anything. The information is coming from Microsoft's own slides, press releases, and statements, and is consistent with the wattage of the PS4's SoC (as well as consistent with the known characteristics of the chipset and associated electronics, SINCE THEY SHARE A LOT). They could run it hotter and faster, but they're not, because they want a cool, quiet, silent box. This has been stated over and over and over again by MS employees.
While there is a lot of nonsense misinformation out there about the supposed weakness of the XB1, you are just as bad with your nonsensical assumptions about the supposed super powers of it. As currently defined in a proven, quantifiable way, the XB1 is a more than capable machine. You don't need to try to make it something it's not. You're not fighting the good fight against the GAFers, you're not helping anyone. You're making things worse by spreading more misinformation.
In short, if you think that the wattage is somehow indicative of some kind of secret sauce, you are wrong, and on September 30 you will owe everyone here an apology. Deal?
just answer this
if PS4 is 120W , what is the APU wattage the big chip inside PS4
then what is the wattage to the Gfx/CPu core supplied by 5 coiltronics on X1
aswer that
at this point my assumption of PSU is correct now is your turn answer that
My point is is correctly showed that PSU will be > 100 or 150W like neogaf or Beyond belief.
and as > 200W is undeniable , remember people laughed hard when i said the PSU will be > 200W , using harsh word that's the point
PS4 =100-120W, then what is the wattage for APU ? answer these please
puresoul, where are you getting this PS4 = 100-120 watts from again - the FCC picture you don't understand?
8 core Jaguar is at least 25 watts and a 18 CU mobile AMD GPU is around 75 - 100 watts TDP depending on clock speed. So I expect the APU to be at least 100 watts before you add in the power use of all the other console parts.
Microsoft have confirmed that...
http://www.engadget.com/2013/05/21/building-xbox-one-an-inside-look/
Please don't make me post the Big Bang Theory GIF again.
8 core Jaguar is at least 25 watts and a 18 CU mobile AMD GPU is around 75 - 100 watts TDP depending on clock speed. So I expect the APU to be at least 100 watts before you add in the power use of all the other console parts.
Microsoft have confirmed that...
http://www.engadget.com/2013/05/21/building-xbox-one-an-inside-look/
Please don't make me post the Big Bang Theory GIF again.
I know there have been ton of rumors about extra GPU component/feature in the X1 but this one is pretty convincing and it's getting some buzz around.
If you have time to read the whole article, it's pretty informative
So could the X1's secret sauce be "Voxel" Cone Ray Tracing?
Why is this important in reference to the X1?
Because DirectX 11.2 and the X1 chip architecture is built for doing partial resident resources in hardware. Removes the limitations other software implementations had, which held some engines back, such as John Carmack's Rage.
The X1's architecture and data move engines have tile and untile features natively, in hardware:
Doesn't the PS4 have this too?
Both AMD GPUs support partial resident textures, but we do know for a fact Microsoft added additional dedicated hardware in the X1 architecture to focus on this area beyond AMD's standard implementations.
Did Sony?
Ask Sony.
How come no one's talked about this?
They have. MS talked about partial resident resources in their DirectX build conference. They explained the move to partial resident resources as a solution in this paper. It just might end up being even more important than originally believed. And more recently an unnamed third party developer is touting better ray tracing capabilities on the X1:
http://www.edge-online.com/news/pow...erences-between-ps4-and-xbox-one-performance/
When might we hear something about it?
DirectX11.2 was only recently unveiled earlier this year. No launch games would have been designed for this. Partial resident textures are still a fairly new technique, and just now getting supported in hardware. Voxel cone ray tracing is also a fairly new implementation. And the alternative of using 3D texture along with partially resident textures is even newer, and not many have attempted it. Developers will certainly need time to start messing around with both.
So what now?
We don't know to what extend partially resident resources will be used on the X1, but if it's enough to pull off cone ray tracing using partially resident 3D textures, it's going to be a pretty big deal. It was a big blow when Epic had to yank it out of UE4, but the Unity plug in and 3d texture implementations still gives hope. Even Epic are considering re-introducing it at some point. Perhaps second and third generation games will attempt to use this. If possible, I'd expect to hear more about it soon.
If you have time to read the whole article, it's pretty informative
So could the X1's secret sauce be "Voxel" Cone Ray Tracing?
Why is this important in reference to the X1?
Because DirectX 11.2 and the X1 chip architecture is built for doing partial resident resources in hardware. Removes the limitations other software implementations had, which held some engines back, such as John Carmack's Rage.
The X1's architecture and data move engines have tile and untile features natively, in hardware:
Doesn't the PS4 have this too?
Both AMD GPUs support partial resident textures, but we do know for a fact Microsoft added additional dedicated hardware in the X1 architecture to focus on this area beyond AMD's standard implementations.
Did Sony?
Ask Sony.
How come no one's talked about this?
They have. MS talked about partial resident resources in their DirectX build conference. They explained the move to partial resident resources as a solution in this paper. It just might end up being even more important than originally believed. And more recently an unnamed third party developer is touting better ray tracing capabilities on the X1:
http://www.edge-online.com/news/pow...erences-between-ps4-and-xbox-one-performance/
When might we hear something about it?
DirectX11.2 was only recently unveiled earlier this year. No launch games would have been designed for this. Partial resident textures are still a fairly new technique, and just now getting supported in hardware. Voxel cone ray tracing is also a fairly new implementation. And the alternative of using 3D texture along with partially resident textures is even newer, and not many have attempted it. Developers will certainly need time to start messing around with both.
So what now?
We don't know to what extend partially resident resources will be used on the X1, but if it's enough to pull off cone ray tracing using partially resident 3D textures, it's going to be a pretty big deal. It was a big blow when Epic had to yank it out of UE4, but the Unity plug in and 3d texture implementations still gives hope. Even Epic are considering re-introducing it at some point. Perhaps second and third generation games will attempt to use this. If possible, I'd expect to hear more about it soon.
I know there have been ton of rumors about extra GPU component/feature in the X1 but this one is pretty convincing and it's getting some buzz around.
If you have time to read the whole article, it's pretty informative
So could the X1's secret sauce be "Voxel" Cone Ray Tracing?
Why is this important in reference to the X1?
Because DirectX 11.2 and the X1 chip architecture is built for doing partial resident resources in hardware. Removes the limitations other software implementations had, which held some engines back, such as John Carmack's Rage.
The X1's architecture and data move engines have tile and untile features natively, in hardware:
Doesn't the PS4 have this too?
Both AMD GPUs support partial resident textures, but we do know for a fact Microsoft added additional dedicated hardware in the X1 architecture to focus on this area beyond AMD's standard implementations.
Did Sony?
Ask Sony.
How come no one's talked about this?
They have. MS talked about partial resident resources in their DirectX build conference. They explained the move to partial resident resources as a solution in this paper. It just might end up being even more important than originally believed. And more recently an unnamed third party developer is touting better ray tracing capabilities on the X1:
http://www.edge-online.com/news/pow...erences-between-ps4-and-xbox-one-performance/
When might we hear something about it?
DirectX11.2 was only recently unveiled earlier this year. No launch games would have been designed for this. Partial resident textures are still a fairly new technique, and just now getting supported in hardware. Voxel cone ray tracing is also a fairly new implementation. And the alternative of using 3D texture along with partially resident textures is even newer, and not many have attempted it. Developers will certainly need time to start messing around with both.
So what now?
We don't know to what extend partially resident resources will be used on the X1, but if it's enough to pull off cone ray tracing using partially resident 3D textures, it's going to be a pretty big deal. It was a big blow when Epic had to yank it out of UE4, but the Unity plug in and 3d texture implementations still gives hope. Even Epic are considering re-introducing it at some point. Perhaps second and third generation games will attempt to use this. If possible, I'd expect to hear more about it soon.
Ryse Siggrapgh Tech:
Yeah this Foxel Cone Ray Tracing investigation definitely sounds more plausible than any special "hidden" hardware... it also fits XO's design approach.
Would be really cool if real.
Would be really cool if real.
some people are speculating that Turn10 may have hinted at this in an interview. And using this quote to support voxel ray tracing
I have no clue, so ill just leave that there for everybody else to speculate
The fact that anyone thinks Sony pulled a fast one on MS and outclassed their console is just ridiculous. Both will get you there graphically and they each have their own way of doing it. Let the multiplatform devs worry about developing the games and making the hardware shine. It's like a religion with some of you guys. Give it a rest and get ready for some great games! Also to those that are all excited about Sony and acting like if you own an X1 you can't have the other-the beauty of the PS4 is if it's really "all that" the thing is only $399. What a great price point if you want another platform to play on. Me personally I will maybe never get a PS4 but if I feel the need to it's pretty cheap to get one. Game on gamers!
I have been saying this since the internet twits started in with the "50% more powerful" business. There is absolutely ZERO chance MS would allow that disparity to happen. If it really were that large of a gap, they would delay launch and equal that gap out IMO
If there was going to be that much of a gap they would have said f*** it and put in 12 gigs and a dgpu back in june lol
That's because there isn't that much of a gap, if any.. and lets assume that there really isn't a gap.. How is that possible with the hardware that is in X1? Software alone filling in the gap? I don't think so, I think that the gap will more or less be filled in with combination of tool sets and certain hardware components that weren't yet talked about. Not saying that they are hidden, maybe just not put in context functionality wise as well as they should be by now.. Could be software + offloading, could be something there that we don't see. Well, there may after all still be something that we just don't know about. Not saying its this, or that, but something. An interesting thought, could they have disabled certain features temporarily in dev kits and could this be why certain devs are bringing up the "50%"' number? Time comes, MS turns on these features an suddenly the consoles are on par or even better?
Great, now Sparse Voxel Cone Tracing is being rebranded as "voxel raytracing" and is being touted as the new secret sauce lol it never ends.
there is no gap, its all people buying SONY crap.
you know SONY Make.Believe = Make up s***. and people will Believe
If there is anybody to worry about anything it should be SONY, they still have no clue what kind of software MS have for their console to function.
you know SONY Make.Believe = Make up s***. and people will Believe
If there is anybody to worry about anything it should be SONY, they still have no clue what kind of software MS have for their console to function.
Bingo. LOL
They have had plenty of time to come up with something if there was a gap.
Talk about not being able to see the forest from the trees! Guys stop getting caught up on if its 215 watts 225 watts whatever, the interesting fact that he is pointing out is that the xbox one power supply is supplying twice as much power as the ps4.
that's true.. and in the world of electronics, you only power what is demanded... so what in there is that power hungry?
The PS4 with it's design and adequate cooling system and lower power usage will be good, kinda thought they might end up with heating issues originally. If the X1 is using double the power then that explains the large open space design